piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:31:54 PM): Eww what are you.
g0d (7/18/13 4:32:20 PM): Well I'm certainly not something to eww about
piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:32:29 PM): Yes you are.
g0d (7/18/13 4:32:36 PM): and why?
piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:33:00 PM): You take slaves...
g0d (7/18/13 4:33:44 PM): Theres nothing really wrong if every body involved is in consensus
piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:34:50 PM): It's gross and reather pathetic...I despise people that have slaves...
g0d (7/18/13 4:35:06 PM): What makes it gross and what makes it pathetic?
piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:35:34 PM): Don't know just is in my opinion.
g0d (7/18/13 4:38:57 PM):
Well, I think you should critisize your opinion then

Unless your okay with the possibility of being absolutely wrong

Its a good idea to have reasons for everything, otherwise "gross" and "pathetic" things happen

Hell, you could say that oldtime unconsented slavery was due in large part to people not critisizing themselves(which sould of led to realizing that taking freedom from someone else is compltely wrong and even monsterlike)I am highly against old slavery, by the way
g0d (7/18/13 4:40:00 PM): See, wht I do is different, in every aspect it is a choice.. although some people that do have slaves are different, I personally have been a very fair master, and am simply indulging in a fetish of mine with no unconsentual actions done
piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:40:57 PM): It dosen't matter what kind of slavery it is.It's gross and pathetic..to me it's like the slave it self clipped there wings off just as the master did it for them.No matter what you say will change my mind.My opnion is my opinion.
g0d (7/18/13 4:45:01 PM):
In that case, its more pathetic for the slave then it is for the master o.o
Well, I can see that veiw, but I do hope you realize that slaves derive great personal gain from being a slave(through the form of emotion[for some people, pain is pleasure]) And as such, the consensual master slave system is mutually benificial
A slave wants a master, and thus derives considerably less pleasure from a relationship that does not have a dominant other
Dominance and submissiveness and to an extent masters and slaves are all a part of the grand scheme of the many different kinds of relationships that happen in the world
piratekingnaota (7/18/13 4:51:23 PM): I explain this one time I don't give a fuck about the reason behind it,all I need to know is it's fucking disgusting no matter the excuse the reason or anything else.My opinion is my opinion i'm sticking to that reason.If you don't like Then that's your promblem not mine.
g0d (7/19/13 2:49:12 AM): Well, that makes you a stupid fuck, and I guess your okay with that.



This essentially is my argument for consented slavery and nearly all consensual alternate lifestyles

What do you think, what arguments do you bring? heh?

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I honestly wish you could have simply copied out the parts which concerned your opinion, because this made my eyes bleed.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as consensual/consented slavery since slavery means you are coerced into it. Slavery being consensual is a contradiction of the term itself

That's the first case for a long time when i had to look into dictionary to have clearer view on meaning of a word "slavery".
It took me some time. I accept your agrument Headfuck, It's logical, thou I think you're wrong on more fundamental level.

"Slavery is system where people are treated as property and it's wrong to take away someone's freedom, but what if the person want's to be a slave and want to heve its freedom taken by someone?"
You say you should approve it since it's that persons own will and in that persons eyes it's beneficial to her, right?

There are many deviations and mental illnesses where people harm themselves willingly, like masochism or any addicition, but I wouldn't say that's good and should be approved cause they are sick and we are obligated to help them even against their will.
It's the same with slavery. There were times when people wanted to be slaves thou they were set free because that was the only style of life they knew or were brainwashed for too long.
If you meet someone that wants to be a slave (of any kind) you know there's no heping to him and best thing that can happen to him/her is a good master, but you shouldn't say that's a good thing itself.

Humans even in this modern age often become slaves, not only to other humans but their needs and feelings or their lifestyles.
Here are some examples if you don't understand what I mean:

Spoiler: show

1. You see a guy or girl that's in love with someone, get friendzooned but still decide to stay by side of that other person thou it will inflict mental harm every time he/she sees her love with someone else or will be unabe to get as close to that person as she wishes. You know there's no helping to someone like that and it's that person own choice but i would never call it a good thing.
2. You see a drunktard. A slave to alcochol, that is hungry yet he still chooses to buy himself another bottle of vodka or some cheap vine, it's his own choice, he's just driven by the needs of his lifestyle, his addiction. After drinking he's happy so it's logicaly beneficial to him as well as to the seller of alcochol.
3. You see a sexual save, case of nymphomania or some sexua deviation, to say bluntly - a whore that goes crazy because of the urge for another persons warmth, so he/she searches for someone that will provide it.
Logicaly after getting it both, addicted and provider are happy.
4. You see a junkie, slave to the drugs, that willingly destroys his life for them, cause after taking them - he feels awesome, to him it's better than anything. So he fucks his life as it's a bitch only to pay for stuff to a dealer.
5. From my life experience. I know a couple of people like my psychology teacher that worked at orphanage. There's a common opinion that orphanages are sometimes worse than pathologicall fammilies since often kids that grow up there are even worse.
Case when child is taken away from parents:
Truth is that after certain age kid will always imitate his parent's since they are prime example for any child, and separation from them ("for no reason", since the life the kid have was the only one he knew and he thought it was good and right) will only make his anger and frustration bigger. Older kids are beyond any resocialization because they knew this life for too long and won't accept anything else.

Any kind of harmfull deviation, system, addiction, or other form of masochizm is wrong (because it's still in the end harmfull!). It doesn't matter so much if you're kind "master" / provider, dealer, seller of someones addiction. By providing it you harm that other human, even if he/ she is happy because of it. But I understand it's their own choice, choice of weak-minded people, you cannot help them so you may proceed with your activity not minding that fact. But I would never call this kind of situation something good. To me it's just sad.

I'm against it thou I wouldn't intevene trough anything than words and persuasion. People that forcibly decide what is and what's not good to others often come to be no better than slavedrivers.

That's all about my opinion on this case.
As I suspect this conversation was held on chatango, where there are many people that do cyber and have some strange sex fantasies played trough RPG and I have nothing agains that. If it pleases them - then why the heck not? So the Piratekingnaota is just some kind of stupid hater or troll or mental disabled person that can't tell the difference between virtual reality and the real life.

Well, This is where it starts to get subjective, what is better? freedom, or keeping people out of harm (In this case self inflicted harm)
As for me I have always placed freedom above anything else on the scale of what is "good"

And good and bad differ depending on the human (as many truths as there are people)

As for masochism and dominance, it has evolutionary gains, When there is a dominant, or sadistic male, with a masochistic or submissive female and they have a kid(or many), The dominant one would take an extremely protective stance around the family while the masochistic one would be able to easily deal with childbirth and other hassles

As a result, these families lasted longer because of the protection of the dominant one and beared more children.

As such, both have a way of spreading and will probably be around for a very long time if not forever (as masochists are likely to bear more children, and more likely to mate with dominant people)

So, Its part of the system of interplaying relationships in the grand scheme of the world, that will probably never go away

I think its fundamentally neutral for that reason.

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In some ways I agree with what Res is saying - if something is permanently and ultimately harmful for someone, it is probably a bad thing. But then you need to classify what is considered harmful. Some people might consider certain things not harmful at all. Masochists, for example, see pain as more of a good thing than a bad thing. Meanwhile someone like Res would consider pain bad. But he's also right to some extent, the mental state of a person is important in deciding how someone classifies something as harmful. But that may also be true with anything. So long as a person - mentally sound or not - views something as pleasurable, and their world view confirms that, who is anyone else to stop them? Of course, unless it imposes on others in some way. Murderers and the like have no right to impose on the life of another just because they find it pleasurable. But if that is limited to themselves, or themselves and other consensual persons, they have that right to partake in those activities that they enjoy. (Of course, those consensual persons have to be fully willing and find that experience enjoyable as well. For example, a murderer can't hold someones family hostage and say that if that person will allow said murderer to kill them, they'll let the family go. It may be consensual to agree to said act, but you're being forced to agree. So in the end we really can't view that as consensual anyways.) Say half the population saw the sky as yellow all the time, and everyone else saw it as blue all the time. Ignoring all the weird possibilities that could arise in a world like this, both of these views may be regarded as fact, or at least are widely accepted as such. Assuming these people are all mentally sound, the only difference would be the perception they have of the sky itself. Or perhaps colour itself. These people have world views that make sense to them, and at least half of the population would agree with it. So it's the same kind of deal for people, like masochists, or people with other strange kinks (though masochism isn't all that strange) who have their own view on different things, like pain. If a handful of people in the population say something is pleasurable when everyone else doesn't, or even one person, they have as much right to their world view and their choice to live that way as anyone else. Even as much of a right as half a world population that says the sky is yellow. Simply because they don't have the numbers doesn't mean something is any less true to them. Basically my opinion is that anyone, even if they're not mentally sound and don't impose on other people who are unwilling, have a right to do whatever they want. It doesn't matter if this person is addicted to something, self-destructive, or anything of the like. It is their fundamental right to do what they want within their own bounds.

P.S. I apologize for focusing so much on the masochist example, but it's a good one and I was too lazy to think up anything else that fits so well.

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That's why I've said that as long as it's doing harm to yourself willingly you cannot force a person to change his/her own ways since it's in their own right to do so with themselves as they please. Or it should be hat way in my opinion. But still we should oppose it and not call it a right thing to do. Anyway I wouldn't call that kind of person free at all since they are bound by their addictions and mental state, you cannot be a slave and free person at the same time.

You are free to do anything with the acceptance of bearing its consequence.

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Before commenting I would like to have a little more context
For one thing how did this conversation come about and who are these "slaves" you are talking about? Is this some form of role play?

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I'm a well known former slave owner, but alas, All I did was say hi to the dude

Well, it does involve real life actions, but yes, its a form of roleplay, they take the role of the slave and I take the role of the master

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I wish you had stated that you were talking about role play, because that puts things in another perspective.

Can consented slavery be anything but roleplay in some way?

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Well, you see, I was thinking of it in a different context. I just reread your initial post once again, (yes it still made my eyes bleed) but in essence I see your point of view of it being a role play. My initial comment was based on the definition of the word slavery. It still stands, by the way.

I really wouldn't call it consensual slavery. It's a mutualism of some sort, wherein both parties benefit off each other. You both want it, you both get something out of it. A fair exchange. When I look at this form of role play in this manner, I see nothing wrong with it.

There is a form of roleplay you see something wrong with?

What matters of slave/master roleplay would you see wrong, if any?

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As I just previously stated, I see nothing wrong with the slave/master scenario since, I think, both parties are getting what they want out of it (dominating and being dominated at the very least). As long as the people involved respect each others boundaries, there's no harm in it.

As for other forms of role play, I wouldn't really say they're wrong, what I meant to imply was that they can be seen as wrong in the eyes of society (then again that would also depend on the norms, but this is a moot point). That aside, there are just some forms of role play I am just not very comfortable with.