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 Slave Mentality 
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
I tried to read this, I really did. I don't suppose you could sumerize whats been covered?

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Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
I read, and i lol'ed hard, i think he was trolling you dude, tough this kind of persons really exist, hell i know about them, its SICK.


Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:24 pm
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Hanzo wrote:
I tried to read this, I really did. I don't suppose you could sumerize whats been covered?


As hilarious as that whole conversation was, I think this is the funniest thing in the whole thread.

I agree, I think he was just trolling you...


Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
I hope he was just trolling you

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Post Re: Slave Mentality
That was a stupid conversation. Not everyone's as idiotic as that guy, troll or not.

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Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:06 am
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Those kinds of people still do not make up the general Christian population. I didn't say there was no one as idiotic as him; just not everyone is.

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Post Re: Slave Mentality
YOU'D be surprised. I'm saying it again, not EVERYONE is the same as him. If at least ONE person is smarter than this idiotic dumbass in terms of their theological learnedness, that makes the statement "not everyone" true.

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Post Re: Slave Mentality
You and those in close proximity to you != everyone in the world. Again, all I was saying was not EVERYONE is like that. A lot can be like that - hell, even the majority could be like that - but that does not mean everyone.

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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Yea... I think based on the way he was talking, he was trolling you. I don't think he actually cares. And you shouldn't be so surprised at someone being so brutal against the human race either, plenty of people (non-Christians particularly) have expressed similar or harsher sentiments on Forkheads throughout the years.

In any case, a few notes:
The bible belt? Yea... I'm not fond of the south in general, I'd have to say. I know a few people from those parts, some good people, but even they generally will say they don't know that much about higher (or even typical) theology because there aren't many people teaching it down there. And whatever, they are mostly protestants, and largely of groups I have issue with for giving everyone a bad impression of Christianity and making them think that the rest of us are like them when we often specifically and historically have disagreed with them on those points.

Jesus didn't make up Hell. While aspects of the idea of Hell, or Gehenna, were indeed elaborated upon and developed by the teachings of Jesus Christ, the basic idea was already around in Judaism before hand. In fact, often Jesus clearly refers to the older idea, and without this idea much of what he says about Hell wouldn't make much sense at all. Granted, it was a somewhat newer or vague/less explicate idea beforehand. But, so were many other ideas, as is actually noted in the Gospel. At the time of Jesus, there were at least 3 (4 depending on if you count the Zealots as desperate) groups in Judaism. In general I believe the Saducees (could be wrong) did not believe in many concepts like angels, and "hell", and such, while the Pharisees did (could be reversed on that). Not much is known about the Esseens beliefs. In any case, there were indications about hell and other things in the general Jewish tradition and various writings (remember there were more scripture writings in Judaism than are contained in the Bible. The Septuagint is, however, what was primarily used during the time of Jesus, which are specifically the books all the old testament books used by Catholics and I believe Orthodox Christians, while protestants use the Septuagint minus a few books). Interestingly, also among some of the books that the Catholics still use and the protestants no longer use (though they did in their early days) are the references to not only hell but purgatory (this is why the protestants tend to say there is no scripture basis for purgatory, they discluded the books that talk about it/indicate it, primarily Maccabees I believe).

In any case, you'll find people like that who are atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, anything really. And you'll find people of almost any group that are intelligent and have studied much the various matters and know things a lot better too.
And this isn't actually slave mentality, its "don't care, do whatever, shits cool" mentality. Kinda common among some stoners and others.

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:04 am
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Sounds more like he just doesn't care and doesn't want to think for himself.

Though the idea of allowing anything God says to be true either way isn't exactly a fallacy, if you realize that the measure of truth is God, as One of the Person's of the Trinity is actually Truth itself. Now, the Bible is not identical with this, and can be misinterpreted or be incomplete, thus could lead to something "not Truth".

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Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
No, it simply expresses my stance that it indeed contains truth and gives witness to The Truth.

You can disagree but lets be sure what we are disagreeing on.

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Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
out of interest do you believe in the whole 7 day creation story

but anyway the bible doesn't contain truth Your stance is rather irational if you believe in a book that contridicts itself at multiple occasions forces people to change it's meaning around so it fits into whats accepted into todays society. futhermore as Lime will quote (although i'm too lazy to search for it now) Jesus fails quite a number of things that he is supposed to do to become the next messiah. Then of course the morals from the bible are terrible in old testament and i'm sure your going to talk about how Jesus all meek and mild made everything better with his love and care. Even though his message is to change nothing from the old testament a good PR man but not much else.

of course we all know Christianty was spread by the sword and started out as a very select cult in Rome until Augustus joined and made everyone turn Christian surely God could of spread his word in a better way "but Haz" I hear you cry "God Made Free Will" the free will that doesn't exist? now I see free will as an Illusion as our state now is pre determined by the factors that are in place because of factors that were in place ad inftum there is no free will

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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Haz wrote:
out of interest do you believe in the whole 7 day creation story

but anyway the bible doesn't contain truth Your stance is rather irational if you believe in a book that contridicts itself at multiple occasions forces people to change it's meaning around so it fits into whats accepted into todays society. futhermore as Lime will quote (although i'm too lazy to search for it now) Jesus fails quite a number of things that he is supposed to do to become the next messiah. Then of course the morals from the bible are terrible in old testament and i'm sure your going to talk about how Jesus all meek and mild made everything better with his love and care. Even though his message is to change nothing from the old testament a good PR man but not much else.

of course we all know Christianty was spread by the sword and started out as a very select cult in Rome until Augustus joined and made everyone turn Christian surely God could of spread his word in a better way "but Haz" I hear you cry "God Made Free Will" the free will that doesn't exist? now I see free will as an Illusion as our state now is pre determined by the factors that are in place because of factors that were in place ad inftum there is no free will


I've said on many occasions the Creation Stories in Genesis (of which there are 2) are Myths (in the proper sense of the word), and thus not even meant to be factual accounts. In fact, St. Augustine, one the of the biggest Christian Theologians, only converted to Christianity after much of the old testament, including these stories, was explained to him in symbolic terms. In any case, contrary to the popular usage of the word, Myths are very valuable, and in many societies still very respected, stories which indeed convey truth, though whether they convey historical facts or not is actually mostly irrelevant as that is not the point (parables and fables have similar idea, you are missing the point if you focus on whether or not a grasshopper ever really wasted away the summer and starved in the winter). Interestingly, probably the primary reason people started clinging to the Creation Stories in Genesis as real was because Aquinas later said he thought they probably were actual accounts of things, though he directly followed that by saying "but, people can disagree with me on that [and have], and it doesn't really matter as there is still a wealth of other meaning to the stories". And then of course, the fundamentalist, primarily found in certain strains of protestantism, got rid of the idea that there can be anything but the literal interpretation of the Bible, and thats how you get the Christians that hold so strongly Creationism.

In any case, I've read the book. You say it contains contradictions, I say it does not. And I do not mean this in a way of "we change it to fit modern ideas", because there are theologians that do that kinda thing and I think they need to get out of my field because they are just using it for political gains. Honestly, the Bible says alot that goes against modern ideas. Alot of things most of us would rather not be there. It doesn't matter, we have to deal with it, and most of us understand its better the way it is.
I don't even say Jesus came and changed things like you think. Oh, things changed, but different things than you think of. No contradictions were made, everything flowed from what came before and became more than it was. I've also discussed this with Lime, Christ didn't actually fail to meet the 'criteria'. He did disappoint many of his time, and was not the most popular interpretation of what the Messiah would be, in fact he did some things to specifically detach himself from those ideas, but he did in fact fall under what the Messiah was supposed to be (this is emphasized most in Matthew, who was more concerned with this, but the others can point it out as well, and if you have read the prophets and understand what they are talking about, it really does fit, particularly with Isaiah's "Suffering Servant" prophesy. But with much else as well). Besides, the Holy Bible has NEVER been the Sole or even PRIMARY authority on our beliefs, doctrines, and faith, at least in the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. We still hold the Bible to be True and authoritative and valuable and inspired and all that, but there is so much MORE and always has been (in fact, it proclaims there is so much more at times), and we even use more books than most the protestant sects do to begin with.

Also, you are thinking about Emperor Constantine, not Augustus, who was dead long before, though the period of early Christianity was considered to take place during the Pax Agusta, which lasted about 200 years. However, you may recall that long before that if you say "Spread by the Sword" you may still be right about Christianity, expect it would mean spread in the face of the sword, while the Christians were constantly being killed throughout the world for their faith in various ways (in fact there are sects that weren't even effected by the Roman Empire's official conversion, as it had already spread further out. Such as the Church in India, which was interestingly much later rediscovered when missionaries went to India and to their surprise there was already a Christian Church there, with a peculiar liturgical difference, but thats a story for another day). In any case, at times it was indeed spread through violence, at other times it was very much not. I do not approve of how it was spread through violence, but what has been done has been done, and typically that was often done by the converts who didn't really understand everything yet and were simply going on what they did know and their old practices. Still, during alot of those times it was not quite what you might think. When Kings or Tribal leaders were converted (without force often), they're people were by custom became defacto Christians. Seems kinda improper but thats how it was, and if you understand that the Kings in many Germanic tribes were also considered the religious leader/priest of the old religion anyway, its not so strange. Of course, it actually probably is spreading to much greater numbers now than before, without violence usually (except in some strange and much condemned by ourselves cases), largely in Africa and Asia.

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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Proverbs
Chapter 30

1
1 2 The words of Agur, son of Jakeh the Massaite: The pronouncement of mortal man: "I am not God; I am not God, that I should prevail.
2
Why, I am the most stupid of men, and have not even human intelligence;
3
Neither have I learned wisdom, nor have I the knowledge of the Holy One.
4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down again-- who has cupped the wind in his hands? Who has bound up the waters in a cloak-- who has marked out all the ends of the earth? What is his name, what is his son's name, if you know it?"
5
Every word of God is tested; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6
Add nothing to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be exposed as a deceiver.
7
Two things I ask of you, deny them not to me before I die:
8
Put falsehood and lying far from me, give me neither poverty nor riches; (provide me only with the food I need;)
9
Lest, being full, I deny you, saying, "Who is the LORD?" Or, being in want, I steal, and profane the name of my God.
10
Slander not a servant to his master, lest he curse you, and you have to pay the penalty.
11
3 There is a group of people that curses its father, and blesses not its mother.
12
There is a group that is pure in its own eyes, yet is not purged of its filth.
13
There is a group--how haughty their eyes! how overbearing their glance!
14
There is a group whose incisors are swords, whose teeth are knives, Devouring the needy from the earth, and the poor from among men.
15
4 The two daughters of the leech are, "Give, Give." Three things are never satisfied, four never say, "Enough!"
16
The nether world, and the barren womb; the earth, that is never saturated with water, and fire, that never says, "Enough!"
17
The eye that mocks a father, or scorns an aged mother, Will be plucked out by the ravens in the valley; the young eagles will devour it.
18
5 Three things are too wonderful for me, yes, four I cannot understand:
19
The way of an eagle in the air, the way of a serpent upon a rock, The way of a ship on the high seas, and the way of a man with a maiden.
20
6 Such is the way of an adulterous woman: she eats, wipes her mouth, and says, "I have done no wrong."
21
Under three things the earth trembles, yes, under four it cannot bear up:
22
Under a slave when he becomes king, and a fool when he is glutted with food;
23
Under an odious woman when she is wed, and a maidservant when she displaces her mistress.
24
Four things are among the smallest on the earth, and yet are exceedingly wise:
25
Ants--a species not strong, yet they store up their food in the summer;
26
7 Rock-badgers--a species not mighty, yet they make their home in the crags;
27
Locusts--they have no king, yet they migrate all in array;
28
Lizards--you can catch them with your hands, yet they find their way into king's palaces.
29
Three things are stately in their stride, yes, four are stately in their carriage:
30
The lion, mightiest of beasts, who retreats before nothing;
31
The strutting cock, and the he-goat, and the king at the head of his people.
32
8 If you have foolishly been proud or presumptuous--put your hand on your mouth;
33
For the stirring of milk brings forth curds, and the stirring of anger brings forth blood.
---------------------------------------------------

A pretty interesting proverb. Now tell me what the problem is again?

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Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:52 pm
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Post Re: Slave Mentality
Have you even READ anything I've ever written beyond the first line? Seriously?
Come on, someone who has read any of it come and laugh with me about that statement, or be angry because he even tries to toss that kinda thing.

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