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 I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn 
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Post I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
The situation is like this: I could have hope in the idea of a thing. That thing is ultimately a trap and I know it's poison. The idea is pleasant and sweet. The idea is also a lie. I have the capacity to mitigate even that lie and subvert it into truth should I choose.

The alternative can be equally sweet, and without poison. The alternative is not hope, however, it's defeat.

I'm given two ends of equal value with one being lies but is hope; and the other being upfront and represented in earnest but is defeat.

Which of the negatives outweighs the other? Given so little information how do the empirical aspects of the decision measure? Does one positive so greatly outweigh the other or perhaps the associated negative? This decision haunts me. I am less from having to make it.

The only neutral party being one ignorant to the details, I cast this moral dilemma to the uncaring masses. I don't expect much; surprise me.

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Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:11 am
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
Given so few details, this depends on much, and is in many ways a philisophical question that hits at the root of what philisophical tradition you choose.

For instance, how important is the truth, and how is superficial satisfaction? The hedonist may not see a problem in foregoing truth as long as pleasure is obtained and pains avoided. The Thomist, on the other hand, would opt for Truth, regardless of inconvenience, and defeat would be humbling anyway and thus a desireable virtue, though typically a Thomist would not loose ultimate hope in any event. That said, depending on what it is you are debating, it might not come up to either the hedonist or the Thomist, or they may rule out one option or another based on other grounds.

I favor Truth myself, or it's pursuit at least, and don't see lies actually leading to good ends, no matter how harsh the truth. But, then again, there are some things that I consider true that others consider lies (and vice versa) that have to do with the very nature of truth itself that, if such considerations were reversed, I don't see much point in caring whether one follows truth or not (hence, the problem goes down to details and choice of philosophical tradition).

Of course, that brings up the other side of, "what will be the future effects of this decision? How will I end up and what courses will I take as a result?" This is a tricky set, of course, since one simply does not have full knowledge of the future, no matter how good we think we are at prediction, and the further out a course goes the worse the foresight becomes.

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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
I suppose, based on what I understand and personally think, give the first option a go. It sounds like a gamble, but if you can bring the odds in your favour, then I say go for it. Just have something to fall back on, of course.

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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
fluffy wrote:
The situation is like this: I could have hope in the idea of a thing. That thing is ultimately a trap and I know it's poison. The idea is pleasant and sweet. The idea is also a lie. I have the capacity to mitigate even that lie and subvert it into truth should I choose.

The alternative can be equally sweet, and without poison. The alternative is not hope, however, it's defeat.

I'm given two ends of equal value with one being lies but is hope; and the other being upfront and represented in earnest but is defeat.

Which of the negatives outweighs the other? Given so little information how do the empirical aspects of the decision measure? Does one positive so greatly outweigh the other or perhaps the associated negative? This decision haunts me. I am less from having to make it.

The only neutral party being one ignorant to the details, I cast this moral dilemma to the uncaring masses. I don't expect much; surprise me.


Pro tip 1: take all three alternatives (1; neutral = where you are now, 2; the hope lie, 3; the defeat) make 2 lists for each, numbering and comparing the positives and negatives of each. the one with more positives than negatives is the winner, or sometimes the one that breaks even is the winner. if the positives are equal to the negatives in all then the one with the least entries is the winner. better to have less negatives than more positives and equal negatives.

Pro-tip 2: still hard to decide? (this may be where you already are);
1; hope lie "the cake is real", no, it's a lie. it is not helpful.
2; defeat "I can make teh MMORPG!!" ... ... "at this rate it'll take me like 4 years.. and with the interruptions life gives.. it's defeat I just don't realize it yet."

In this case, the defeat has hope, but it'll take determination, effort and an ability to say "fuck you!, NO! I have important shit to do! do it your damn self" to people trying to get you distracted, and the ability to balance your fuck-off time with your work time. Each is equally important.

if the defeat is not a case of this, then my answer is "neither is your option, consider the neutral option and look for something else."

if you like now that I've given my unbiased opinion, you can PM me the actual situation if you like, I can't guarantee I can help, but sometimes it helps to have a second or third or fourth head coming up with alternatives.

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Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:11 am
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
Hm.

n0th1n has great insight so I need to think on it, maybe overnight. I've reached a kind of zen nihilism where since nothing matters I can objectively view all things and choose what I want to care about. I'm actually optimistic in my nature and mood with a distinct disregard for the actual outcome of most everything. My infinite patience has led to problems: since I can wait forever I often do, to the point where nothing is ever accomplished. Like the final level of a procrastination skill.

I already want to agree with Elsa-chan pretty much out of hand but… how do I say this… there's a kind of loss of my humanity as I become a relative god. Not in any literal sense, just a way to describe the abuse of power I would have to perform and the resulting inequalities. Having something to fall back on is actually only even possible in option one (hope lie) so with that criteria I suppose that option looks only more attractive.

joshex kind of nailed it with protip 2. I've done protip 1 of course, that's the first step to any big decision making. The number and nature of either option's pros and cons are equal, at least when weighted accordingly. The defeat is final. It's equivalent to cutting off an arm: accepting it means never having that option again. (No, Yom, you can not rebuild it. It's to become lost and scorched.)

I'm currently at option two—that is to say I'm living it. The apparent nature of the situation is horrifyingly accurate and there is no changing it (I've exerted great effort to no effect) and is ultimately nothing pleasant. "Defeat" here is an immortal's lifetime of being unfulfilled. Some that know me more than passingly might be able to guess at it and hopefully without putting in this thread as I'm quite intent on keeping this quiet for the time being. Choosing this status quo (defeat) requires burning the proverbial bridge of option one.

Option one, sweet lies of hope that I can warp into truth, requires that I burn the proverbial bridge of option two. The mitigation and subversion here is that I hold great power over this option due to the tremendous imbalance of power inherent in the option. The imbalance of power will ultimately mean I can't see people as my equal. As I play a choir of people like instruments and bend the will of others to my whimsy even my ultimate "blurred faces" philosophy (where everyone else is the star of their movie) breaks down and I lose something that separates humans from animals as humans join the ranks of animal from my relative position of power.

The two options are mutually exclusive and neither truly results in exact happiness. Option one is a small factor in my self actualization but at the cost of what may be my humanity. Option two is me forfeiting my personal ability to achieve self actualization. The inability to change this situation is due to my investment to correct the horrific imbalance in power which, while only partially successful, eliminated my ability to influence anything. I can't even further correct the imbalance.

Think of this as a mix between poker and control over a company using stock options.

I wouldn't allow either to prevent me from truly achieving self actualization but… I don't like the costs. Perhaps joshex has a point in that I need a third option. It might be possible to not pay any toll at all. Any thoughts?

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In just under one-thousand eight-bit bytes I have to confer some glorious shrine to myself by means of text, images, hyper links, embeded flash compositions and possibly formatting. I could abuse this easily. Ten hour clips on youtube embeded in a single vertical stack. Multi-megapixel long transparent GIFs causing scrollbar hell. Nuero-linguistic programs that fuck your mind like a fresh squid. Eye raping color schemes using ascii full-width blocks. Images or links to images of things that can not be unseen. Anything called "epilepsy" dot SWF. This is what I want to do. I am not a good person. I just know that would be a flagrant display of disrespect. I'll wait until I can get away with it.
NOW IN GLORIOUS TODD A.O.!
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Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:16 am
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
Sounds like we need a pro-tip 0 session

Pro-tip 0:
1: what do you want to accomplish in life?
2: what will it take to get there? MONEY!! -> NO
2 again: what would you use the money to fund/purchase/do? labor, materials etc.
3: if you attempted to do it yourself such as going out and finding your own materials and doing all the labor, how long would it take?
4: do you have any friends that can/will help you?
5: realistically with those friends how long will it take? how much will it cost from the profits?
6: is it still too long? or does it limit your profits too much?
if 6 is yes: what you want to accomplish may be fucking awesome, but lets face it, it's Gold and getting or making gold is nigh impossible in a realistic setting and time-frame for profit. What you need is Quick Shit, now watch those two words carefully because both are exactly what you need;

Quick: FUCKING S.O.S. Mutha Fuka! Tatl: Link we need more time! play the song of time!, if a part of the project is going to take a long ass time, then remove it and put it nicely aside for later until you are left with the quick bits that you can get done in /SHORT/ time but fuckign remember to put in the main goal bit! if the main goal is monies then fucking don't forget the profit method!!!.

Shit: lets face it once you remove all the nifty stuff, all that's gonna be left is shit, but these days, people will pay you for shit you just gotta know who to sell it to. YOU MUST BE CAREFUL TO INSURE THAT IT IS INFACT SHIT, if there is anything of real value you have failed, you now have Quick Silver and as we all know, that shit kills = you. whi? cuz someone else with more power, laborers and monay gunna steal that shit and plop it into something much better than you have to offer with-in a few months, then j00r profits = 0.

So. in contrast Quick Shit, then build in the good stuff once you are established and your time is being paid for and you can submit it for profit fast without chance of rivals stealing it.

if 6 is no; then get that shit going, shits always better with a team of friends.

If you have already considered pro-tip 0 aka "life direction, what do I really want to be doing? how can I get thar?" Then kudos to you.

I was going to write more but accidentally IRL interruptions etc. and I have not double screened this post for accuracy of what I really want to say. :shinjif

Just remember you are always in control of what you want to do.

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His name is not Robert Paulsen, His name is Gregory Matthew Bruni, he won so hard.

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Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:42 am
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
K I L L U R S E L F M Y M A N

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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
Holy fucking shit, that's a lot to read. Well, here I go. *VERB LIKE A MOTHER FUCKER*
joshex wrote:
Sounds like we need a pro-tip 0 session

Pro-tip 0:
1: what do you want to accomplish in life?
The simplest answer is death; the long and most technically correct answer is a form of corporeal indifference that is beyond the scope of this conversation.
joshex wrote:
2: what will it take to get there? MONEY!! -> NO
The great effluvium, money. Money makes everything corporeal happen.
joshex wrote:
2 again: what would you use the money to fund/purchase/do? labor, materials etc.
I have a long list of purchases to make into the hundreds of millions of dollars.
joshex wrote:
3: if you attempted to do it yourself such as going out and finding your own materials and doing all the labor, how long would it take?
Civilization wouldn't wait for me; such an amount of time would be prohibitively long.
joshex wrote:
4: do you have any friends that can/will help you?
None of which I am aware.
joshex wrote:
5: realistically with those friends how long will it take? how much will it cost from the profits?
Assuming a probabilistic percentage of friends contribute generous portions of the labor we're still well past the accepted lifespan of civilization. There are also no profits.
joshex wrote:
6: is it still too long? or does it limit your profits too much?
Yes, considerably so.
joshex wrote:
if 6 is yes: what you want to accomplish may be fucking awesome, but lets face it, it's Gold and getting or making gold is nigh impossible in a realistic setting and time-frame for profit. What you need is Quick Shit, now watch those two words carefully because both are exactly what you need;
Negative.
joshex wrote:
Quick: FUCKING S.O.S. Mutha Fuka! Tatl: Link we need more time! play the song of time!, if a part of the project is going to take a long ass time, then remove it and put it nicely aside for later until you are left with the quick bits that you can get done in /SHORT/ time but fuckign remember to put in the main goal bit! if the main goal is monies then fucking don't forget the profit method!!!.
It is much simpler and quicker to just have massive amounts of money. Although, at this point I believe it's prudent to state that this entire post is irrelevant to my original question.
joshex wrote:
Shit: lets face it once you remove all the nifty stuff, all that's gonna be left is shit, but these days, people will pay you for shit you just gotta know who to sell it to. YOU MUST BE CAREFUL TO INSURE THAT IT IS INFACT SHIT, if there is anything of real value you have failed, you now have Quick Silver and as we all know, that shit kills = you. whi? cuz someone else with more power, laborers and monay gunna steal that shit and plop it into something much better than you have to offer with-in a few months, then j00r profits = 0.
This is great advice but does not help with the question I'm facing.
joshex wrote:
So. in contrast Quick Shit, then build in the good stuff once you are established and your time is being paid for and you can submit it for profit fast without chance of rivals stealing it.
I admire your fervor but this doesn't seem to help me with my decision.
joshex wrote:
if 6 is no; then get that shit going, shits always better with a team of friends.
You might not say that if you knew what my ultimate goals were.
joshex wrote:
If you have already considered pro-tip 0 aka "life direction, what do I really want to be doing? how can I get thar?" Then kudos to you.
Of course I have, I do that quarterly to revise and perfect my ongoing plot to take over the world.
joshex wrote:
I was going to write more but accidentally IRL interruptions etc. and I have not double screened this post for accuracy of what I really want to say. :shinjif
Fair enough.
joshex wrote:
Just remember you are always in control of what you want to do.


"We will give you… immortal."
"Nah, sometimes I kind of want to die."

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In just under one-thousand eight-bit bytes I have to confer some glorious shrine to myself by means of text, images, hyper links, embeded flash compositions and possibly formatting. I could abuse this easily. Ten hour clips on youtube embeded in a single vertical stack. Multi-megapixel long transparent GIFs causing scrollbar hell. Nuero-linguistic programs that fuck your mind like a fresh squid. Eye raping color schemes using ascii full-width blocks. Images or links to images of things that can not be unseen. Anything called "epilepsy" dot SWF. This is what I want to do. I am not a good person. I just know that would be a flagrant display of disrespect. I'll wait until I can get away with it.
NOW IN GLORIOUS TODD A.O.!
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:17 am
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
fluffy wrote:
Holy fucking shit, that's a lot to read. Well, here I go. *VERB LIKE A MOTHER FUCKER*
joshex wrote:
Sounds like we need a pro-tip 0 session

Pro-tip 0:
1: what do you want to accomplish in life?
The simplest answer is death; the long and most technically correct answer is a form of corporeal indifference that is beyond the scope of this conversation.
joshex wrote:
2: what will it take to get there? MONEY!! -> NO
The great effluvium, money. Money makes everything corporeal happen.
joshex wrote:
2 again: what would you use the money to fund/purchase/do? labor, materials etc.
I have a long list of purchases to make into the hundreds of millions of dollars.
joshex wrote:
3: if you attempted to do it yourself such as going out and finding your own materials and doing all the labor, how long would it take?
Civilization wouldn't wait for me; such an amount of time would be prohibitively long.
joshex wrote:
4: do you have any friends that can/will help you?
None of which I am aware.
joshex wrote:
5: realistically with those friends how long will it take? how much will it cost from the profits?
Assuming a probabilistic percentage of friends contribute generous portions of the labor we're still well past the accepted lifespan of civilization. There are also no profits.
joshex wrote:
6: is it still too long? or does it limit your profits too much?
Yes, considerably so.
joshex wrote:
if 6 is yes: what you want to accomplish may be fucking awesome, but lets face it, it's Gold and getting or making gold is nigh impossible in a realistic setting and time-frame for profit. What you need is Quick Shit, now watch those two words carefully because both are exactly what you need;
Negative.
joshex wrote:
Quick: FUCKING S.O.S. Mutha Fuka! Tatl: Link we need more time! play the song of time!, if a part of the project is going to take a long ass time, then remove it and put it nicely aside for later until you are left with the quick bits that you can get done in /SHORT/ time but fuckign remember to put in the main goal bit! if the main goal is monies then fucking don't forget the profit method!!!.
It is much simpler and quicker to just have massive amounts of money. Although, at this point I believe it's prudent to state that this entire post is irrelevant to my original question.
joshex wrote:
Shit: lets face it once you remove all the nifty stuff, all that's gonna be left is shit, but these days, people will pay you for shit you just gotta know who to sell it to. YOU MUST BE CAREFUL TO INSURE THAT IT IS INFACT SHIT, if there is anything of real value you have failed, you now have Quick Silver and as we all know, that shit kills = you. whi? cuz someone else with more power, laborers and monay gunna steal that shit and plop it into something much better than you have to offer with-in a few months, then j00r profits = 0.
This is great advice but does not help with the question I'm facing.
joshex wrote:
So. in contrast Quick Shit, then build in the good stuff once you are established and your time is being paid for and you can submit it for profit fast without chance of rivals stealing it.
I admire your fervor but this doesn't seem to help me with my decision.
joshex wrote:
if 6 is no; then get that shit going, shits always better with a team of friends.
You might not say that if you knew what my ultimate goals were.
joshex wrote:
If you have already considered pro-tip 0 aka "life direction, what do I really want to be doing? how can I get thar?" Then kudos to you.
Of course I have, I do that quarterly to revise and perfect my ongoing plot to take over the world.
joshex wrote:
I was going to write more but accidentally IRL interruptions etc. and I have not double screened this post for accuracy of what I really want to say. :shinjif
Fair enough.
joshex wrote:
Just remember you are always in control of what you want to do.


"We will give you… immortal."
"Nah, sometimes I kind of want to die."


I was hoping it wasn't that kind of severe situation, I will reply tomorrow, I just finished a long work day. this topic gets my first attention when i return because, for reasons unspecified I assumed this is a life threatening situation and I need to keep you alive.

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Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:13 am
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
Well a few of you have weighed in, I probably could benefit from 「H A N Z O」's advice the most, if such a thing were possible. n0th1n had some very thought-provoking things to say. Ultimately, philosophy might be an interesting way to break down the decision into base components but it does not change the outcomes or the effects thereof. Right now I have no capacity to take either option. I must wait something around half a cycle before I take the first bold steps.

I'll probably come back to this thread and might add juicy details. I might just end up making my decision and providing an update. Time will tell.

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In just under one-thousand eight-bit bytes I have to confer some glorious shrine to myself by means of text, images, hyper links, embeded flash compositions and possibly formatting. I could abuse this easily. Ten hour clips on youtube embeded in a single vertical stack. Multi-megapixel long transparent GIFs causing scrollbar hell. Nuero-linguistic programs that fuck your mind like a fresh squid. Eye raping color schemes using ascii full-width blocks. Images or links to images of things that can not be unseen. Anything called "epilepsy" dot SWF. This is what I want to do. I am not a good person. I just know that would be a flagrant display of disrespect. I'll wait until I can get away with it.
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
A pawn, when it conquers the battlefield, becomes a lord.

Conquer the battlefield, and bend the rules - or break'em. Defeat? Turn it into victory! A lie? Draw the poison out of it and draw big-chested anime babes on it!

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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
No, that won't work this time. This is different.

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In just under one-thousand eight-bit bytes I have to confer some glorious shrine to myself by means of text, images, hyper links, embeded flash compositions and possibly formatting. I could abuse this easily. Ten hour clips on youtube embeded in a single vertical stack. Multi-megapixel long transparent GIFs causing scrollbar hell. Nuero-linguistic programs that fuck your mind like a fresh squid. Eye raping color schemes using ascii full-width blocks. Images or links to images of things that can not be unseen. Anything called "epilepsy" dot SWF. This is what I want to do. I am not a good person. I just know that would be a flagrant display of disrespect. I'll wait until I can get away with it.
NOW IN GLORIOUS TODD A.O.!
fluffco™ LLC takes no responsibility for anything, ever, at all, under any circumstances and is entirely fictional outside Colorado.


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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
YomToxic wrote:
A pawn, when it conquers the battlefield, becomes a lord.

Conquer the battlefield, and bend the rules - or break'em. Defeat? Turn it into victory! A lie? Draw the poison out of it and draw big-chested anime babes on it!


when a pawn conquers the battle field they become a queen only (only in computer chess or nonstandard chess can you make them into any other piece) and only if your queen has already been taken.

not sure fluffy would approve of getting ass raped by a lazy bearded guy that can only move one square at a time.

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His name is not Robert Paulsen, His name is Gregory Matthew Bruni, he won so hard.

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Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:15 pm
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Post Re: I'm conflicted: the potential of being a pawn
This time last year I was that lazy bearded guy doing the ass rape one square at a time. I raped me a lot of ass.

Seriously though, I have many other things to take care of for now.

_________________
In just under one-thousand eight-bit bytes I have to confer some glorious shrine to myself by means of text, images, hyper links, embeded flash compositions and possibly formatting. I could abuse this easily. Ten hour clips on youtube embeded in a single vertical stack. Multi-megapixel long transparent GIFs causing scrollbar hell. Nuero-linguistic programs that fuck your mind like a fresh squid. Eye raping color schemes using ascii full-width blocks. Images or links to images of things that can not be unseen. Anything called "epilepsy" dot SWF. This is what I want to do. I am not a good person. I just know that would be a flagrant display of disrespect. I'll wait until I can get away with it.
NOW IN GLORIOUS TODD A.O.!
fluffco™ LLC takes no responsibility for anything, ever, at all, under any circumstances and is entirely fictional outside Colorado.


Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:49 pm
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