Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] 
 Voluntarism 
Author Message
Level 19
Level 19
User avatar

Cash on hand:
57,018.00
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 1:28 pm
Group: Oldies
Post Voluntarism
Voluntarism is a philisophical foundational idea that has been around for thousands of years now. In a brief version, it's the idea that the will is of utmost importance, with reason, emotion and truth being secondary and subject to the will. This comes up in many forms and in many areas, and in many ways seems to be an underpinning of many popular notions.

One of the critiques of voluntarism, related to how it diminishes the importance of Truth, is that since the will is primary and can trump truth, or truth is whatever the will desires, there becomes no basis for rational discussion between unlike philosophical groups. Since there is no use trying to mutually seek the truth, since the truth is of lesser importance and is based on what the will decides, and therefore there is no reasonable basis to determine it, there's no real point in debate, there is no relevant common ground to discuss and convince on. What is left is violence and other forms of force, since there is no real basis for mutually even attempting to determine an objective truth.

This has played out in politics in various spheres. We see it especially in modernism and liberal-modernity (which, despite the word liberal, would generally correspond to what we consider both liberal and conservative in American, and I believe European, politics. Though there are versions of each that do no necessarily contain voluntarism). It comes up in controversies like whether or not a person can change their sex, or other 'identity' politics (along with related concepts of self-determination, and other factors). People will make the claim that they are, in fact, a table in a human body (an actual claim), or a bear, or something else, and induce at least social pressure to attempt to force others to acknowledge what they have decided from their will despite the external evidence to the contrary or despite the reasons (or even wills) of others. In fact, in much political discussion this becomes the idea behind conflict, because a side may not acknowledge that the other side has attempted to come to the truth of the matter and somehow erred in their determination, but instead is convinced that the will of the other is the truth they proclaim, and thus the basis of their difference is perhaps just bigotry, hatred, malice, or whatever else, because they assume that the will determines the stance, rather than is submissive to a determined truth (correct or otherwise, but there isn't much of a correct or erroneous to speak of in this stance).

This has also been noted as a danger, and a difference, between religions. Some religions, for instance, or some sects in religions, believe that God's will determines truth, and thus the way things are is more or less arbitrary in accordance to God's will, and could just as easily be otherwise if God willed differently. The will is prior to Truth, rather than working in conjunction with Truth, for instance, and thus God does not act within the realm of reason, logic or anything else, and need not. Other religions believe God is Truth itself, and thus His will flows from or with Truth, and thus what is is a reflection of the objective Truth, and thus in more instances necessary, rather than arbitrary. The the latter instance, there becomes a basis for conversation between religions, and other groups, and debate, and perhaps conversion, as long as it is seen that each is seeking Truth, and thus within certain confines Truth can be determined and one may attempt to convince another of it, without the need for force. In fact, force works counter to the intentions of seeking truth, and is thus often discouraged (this was actually the primary point of the famous speech in which Pope Benedict XVI was accused of being anti-Islamic due to a few lines in which he was quoting someone else, but as he was saying violence is contrary to the human soul and the nature of God, and thus cannot be used to spread Faith, and when it is it is a counterproductive abuse. Instead, reason must be used.) On the other hand, a religion based in voluntarism, even voluntarism of God, has a clearer resort to use violence to spread itself, as the use of logic, reason and appeals to common truth become less meaningful, since any objective truth we may think we observe could have nothing at all to do with God, as he could have acted arbitrarily in the matter.

And, as I mentioned, you will see aspects of both of these ideas crop up from time to time in certain actors in many areas. Sometimes they are rejected as out of line with the larger tradition, sometimes they are accepted, depending on what group we are talking about.

I've personally gone back and forth on certain aspects of this concept, prior to hearing about it formally. For instance, I have posed that there is much that is much that would seem to be a logical contradiction that is not necessarily impossible for God (which anti-voluntarism would sometimes dispute), but it was usually along the lines of a unique situation God is in that puts him outside, or gives him alternatives, to a particular paradox or logical situation, but also with the acknowledgement that the actions that are taken are not entirely arbitrary, but rather must flow from who He is as both Truth and Love, for that is what would guide the will and any decision, even if power were not strictly limited. After hearing some recent arguments by those better familiar with the matters than I against voluntarism though, I have some doubts about that stance, though it does seem to avoid the primary problem by giving the particularities of the guide, perhaps.

So, voluntarism, thoughts?

_________________
Back again. I do stuff. Do you?


Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:54 pm
Profile E-mail YIM
Level 1
Level 1
User avatar

Cash on hand:
26,649.20
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:32 pm
Group: Registered users
Post Re: Voluntarism
Isn't emotion a driving factor behind will rather than a simplistic, singular truth? The "I want to do this because I want to." rather than "I'll be doing this because of external factors." coming to play.

As for the God factor, I'd say local traditions decide what god really is. For some, God takes the role of an observer. Others see God as the Player 1(cheats on) of the game called existence and we're the NPCs. So, when it comes to voluntarism, god should be factored out because different cultures make their gods in their own images - some as conquerors and kings, others as artisans and sages.

Like communism, voluntarism seems like a nice idea on paper - but the different aspects of people, along with their attendant cultures and attitudes to life make putting together a voluntarist system a bit of a challenge - everyone wants the biggest slice of the literal pie with the least effort.

So I guess a proper voluntarist system can be put together with very like-minded individuals working together for a unified goal because they are willing to volunteer their time to work on the group's goal, rather than working for a minimum of time, and expecting the biggest cut.

_________________
Image


Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:11 am
Profile
Level 19
Level 19
User avatar

Cash on hand:
57,018.00
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 1:28 pm
Group: Oldies
Post Re: Voluntarism
You are confusing the term "vontuntarism" with "volunteerism" or the concept of a "voluntary society". While the terms sound similar, they are entirely unrelated.

As for whether emotion is a driving factor behind will, rather than truth, that can be the case with humans, but doesn't have to be even there. It is an influencer of the will, but any time a person chooses to act against their natural emotions (such as maintains calm and patience in a situation that would otherwise frustrate them, chooses to act with love towards one that has caused them great distress, or even chooses to harm despite a disposition preferring to do otherwise, they are using their will in a way contrary to strictly their emotions). However, that was not the point in most of the above discussion, as the premise was that Will and Truth are separate factors, that at times may come into conflict with one another. In Voluntarism, when a conflict occurs between the Will and the Truth, the Will wins and replaces the Truth.

The popular joke example of this would be the phrase, "I reject your reality and replace it with my own!" which proposes that one has control over reality itself and constructs their own reality in a meaningful way.

As for "local traditions" determining what God really is, that's far more complicated, but also based on a philosophical assumption I would not agree with if applied to all cases in the same way. However, as regards voluntarism, God is of central concern for the reasons mentioned in the first post (the difference in seeing God as using voluntarism or not is dramatic and leads to very different approaches when encountering the world in general and those of differing beliefs about God in particular).

_________________
Back again. I do stuff. Do you?


Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:05 pm
Profile E-mail YIM
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 3 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Mods Database :: Imprint :: Crawler Feeds :: Reset blocks
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.

Portal XL 5.0 ~ Premod 0.3 phpBB SEO