This will not be put in serious as it doesn't need to be an extremely serious discussion:

So, here what has always bothered me about Vegetarians and Vegans (of a particular kind). They don't eat meat because they don't want to be harming/killing/abusing animals. Some even don't drink the milk or eat cheese because it comes from an animal. They do this, as far as I'm aware, because these are living creatures.

However, last I checked, the vegetables, fruits, grains and fungus they eat are also living things. Fruits, it could be argued, are an instance in which the plant itself does not need to die for you to eat the fruit, however then you could excuse the use of milk and cheese. In any case, whatever you are eating, you are eating a living organism, and likely killing one to eat it.

Unless, of course, you eat EXTREMELY unnatural and processed food made in a lab or something from non-living matter and chemicals. Yet, last I checked, most of these groups are opposed to such a diet as well.

So, whats the deal?

There are some vegetarians I do accept, of course: Those who are allergic or have had bad reactions to eating meat, those who have absolutely no reason at all and just kinda do it, and those who are mostly vegetarian for because their religion forbids the eating of various meats.

I've known a few vegitareans. I dont really understand these people either. My friend was one and she would eat imitation meat like tofurki (tastes sort of like turkey) and tofu burgers. She fed me for a month on this tofu stuff. I felt really good, calmer even. Though, Id never be totally vegan. Though Id eat tofurki and tofu burgers because they taste so good for some reason (or I'm just crazy)

From what I understand, the way you get such flavored tofu is actually by cooking it with whatever you want it to taste like. So that would mean that at some point a turkey or some burgers were cooked to make that tofu taste like that. But, I could be wrong.

I can get along well with most vegetarians I know. The only difficulty is with the really fanatical ones who try their utmost to force their dietary choice on you. I remember one vegan I knew who kept insisting that meat was murder. My buds trolled her by buying Burger King's Hamburgers and eating it in front of her, then saying "Murder tastes awesome with Barbeque Sauce."

No, she totally refuses to eat meat. The cheese she put on the burgers was that soy cheese stuff. I never saw her cooking with any meat. She's one of those hippy new age ladies.

I think his point was that if you buy the pre-made stuff, it would be cooked with whatever you want it to taste like. But that doesn't matter either 'cause you've misunderstand, n0th1n:

http://www.absoluterecipes.com/vegetari ... rgers.html

Recipe for making tofu burgers. No meat included.

Hmmm, well then it sounds like it doesn't really taste like burgers but tastes like the flavoring alot of people inject into burgers to give burgers extra flavor. Granted this often overpowers the actual meat taste with most people, so it might work as a fine substitute, but it shouldn't imitate the unflavored burgers very well. But I don't know. I know I've had the veggie burgers before and they tasted WAY different and crappy.

@Haz: I know what you mean. Like I said above, the thing I don't get is why eating meat is murder but not eating vegetables. I think if they're going to try and move the bar of acceptable eating the way they do, its arbitrary to stop at animals. Seems to be just a sentimental "oh they look cute" or something, or maybe a compromise because they know otherwise they wouldn't be able to live. Honestly, until humans become photosynthetic, we don't exactly have options to eat anything non-living.

Speaking also of which, one of the most terrible examples of such vegans/ vegetarians was on "Surreal Life" show when Vanilla Ice (along with alot of the other people) was grilling some burgers or something and eating it, and the other celebrity lady said something about "well, maybe I should eat you daughter" or something, which got him extremely pissed off, and I think understandably so, and she was just like "theres no difference". If you can't understand the difference between humans and animals thats one problem, if you can't understand the difference between a man's DAUGHTER and EVERYTHING ELSE, how that effects him, you have severe problems. Never threaten a man's young daughter. Even a cannibal would say thats going too far.

I think the belief comes from the fact that animals are conscious. Plants are not. They are simply living, but have no feelings or consciousness.

They see the killing of animals as UNNECESSARY harm.

Vegans are the ones who don't even drink milk becomes cows are "slaves" apparently.

To me, it's all bullshit. But, I don't care much, as long as they don't bother me about it.

If humans never ate meat, they would never have developed the intelligence to become more than nomadic apes. If they just ate fruit like they did back before ancient times we'd still be like other primates.

Then again, some of those apes do eat meat, so I could be wrong. Most of my point is, for optimum brain function protein, fat and iron is needed.

Most fruits and vegetables dont have this. They do, but not as much as meat. You'll notice that animals that tend to be predators tend to have larger brains and are a lot more intelligent. While the prey animals, the ones that usually eat plants and insects arent as smart in comparison

While I have read a rather interesting philosophy book on the topic of how eating, and range of eating, relates to our development as humans in particular, as far as I am aware Elephants, a likewise very intelligent and massively brained animal, do not eat meat.

In any case, the distinction is more or less arbitrary to me. How do they know the vegetation does not have some level or form of consciousness? How do they know the animals have a consciousness which is in any way comparable to what we mean when we refer to the consciousness which humans have? Why exactly does consciousness matter so much to them anyway?

Well, you have sort of a point there. If you believe in evolution, plants were one of the first lifeforms around. you'll notice if you look at the anatomy of a plant at the cellular level there are similarities to the anotomy of a more complicated life form, such as a mammal. So just maybe plants evolved into animals with brains... only a funny theory I had in grade 10 science class that I Thought was me just over thinking my classwork.

It's something called a Central Nervous System. Animals can feel and suffer. Plants CAN NOT. It's impossible for they do not have the brain structure to do so. they don't even have a brain.

Also, vegans and vegetarians believe that we CURRENTLY don't need to eat meat. That it's currently just unnecessary harm. Basically, we've reached a point in human society where meat is no longer needed.

Doesn't actually address what I said. The matter was consciousness, not pain or feeling. Sure, we typically might say that such consciousness is in the brain, but how do we know that is universally the case? Long has it been a belief and consideration of various philosophers as to whether consciousness may exist apart from a brain and even apart from matter. Theres little reason to deny that a plant COULD have some form of consciousness, even if it is different from our own, and little way of knowing animals DO have a consciousness, even if they have a brain. They may, they may not, they may have it in some form not comparable to our own.

I personally believe they are afraid that one day it may be us on the chopping block. Having read stories like "The Birds" where nature turns on humanity and brings it to the brink of destruction. It's a real possibility that one day nature will turn on us. And meybe by doing this they hope to delay the inevitable... just like the empires of the past nothing lasts forever, even humanity will see it's end one day. But that's just my opinion and one shouldn't take much stock in what I say when i'm tired.

Also UNNECESSARY harm... LOL, the very thing you hope to save is full of it. Until we find a better and probably cheaper solution the bulk of humanity says Fuck off to not needing meat. (Plus I like my meat, I agree with ThePhantomStranger murder does taste fucking awesome with barbeque sauce.)

Mizo too goes well with murder... as do various broths.