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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
ReinaHarden wrote:
And Hannibal was one bad ass mother fucker as well
This I agree with, but one must not forget the words of Marhabal(sp) "Hannibal knows how to gain a victory, but not how to use it"
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:44 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
ReinaHarden wrote:
And Hitler wasn't doing to bad of a job until Japan went and fucked with us, and got us involved.
And the reason Japan fucked with the US? Because Hitler told them to. He was afraid the US would come over and save the day. First he tried to get the Mexicans to attack America, saying that if they did they could have all their territory and more returned to them. The Mexicans were too lazy so they didn't wanna fight, so he turned to Japan and told them if they destroyed the US, that he would give them China when all was said and done.
So really, Hitler's paranoia of the US joining the fight is what ultimately lead him to make the US join the fight.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:46 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
...Not really. The Japanese needed to attack the US anyways becuase the US had effectivily formed an oil and metal embrago agianst Japan with the Dutch (who at the time owned Indonesia) and the British. With the embrago in place, the Japanese needed to secure oilfields in order to keep their invasion of China going, thus leading to the attempt to annhilate the American aircraft carriers at Pearl Harbour.
True enough, Nazi Germany and Facist Italy were already allied with Japan, byt they didn't push the Japanese for war the US, they mearly stuck to their allied guarntee of mutal war.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:52 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Perhaps it wasn't the primary motivating factor, but the Nazi's were looking for someone to punch the Americans in the face and the Japs were on the list of contenders to do so. Yes, the Japs needed oil and such like you said and that was a big reason for attacking the US, but Hitler was pushing them for war with the US himself.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:55 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Perhaps, but like I said the overiding reason was the need for oil and scrap metal, overwise they would have likley taken little notice. I mean, I'm sure Hitler would have been much happier had they hit the USSR instead.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:58 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
I'll give you Hitler and Nobunaga on that technicality.... not quite sure what rank Hannibal was.
Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
That's the thing dude, if Hitler could get the Japs (or anybody, for that matter) to beat (or at least cripple) the American's then he could write off his Western Front as a victory as pretty much the only resistance remaining was the British. This would then allow him to focus ALL of his resources on the USSR front and possibly make a better attempt at invading to the east. The US still being around meant they could come to the aid of their allies, the British, at any moment. So before he could consider his Western Front a completed and successful campaign, he would first need insurance that the US wouldn't get involved. The plan would then be that he'd push on through Russia and come up against China from the other side, helping to conquer it and then give it to the Japs.
Pearl Harbor happened for numerous reasons, neither of us is wrong.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:04 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
As for Oda, I don't really know much about his particular exploits, only that he was the one clearly most fit to unite Japan, however his cruel and coldly-calculating methods for doing so led one of his top retainers, Mitsunari, to betray and assassinate him.
That's one of the reasons I prefer the Three Kingdoms to Japan's civil war. The Three Kingdoms, obviously, is a clear-cut set-up that divided the land into (gasp!) three kingdoms...a vision masterminded by Zhuge Liang...all the battles and skirmishes that lead the land to be divided as such was all a part of his plan.
With the Japanese version, there is no such clear cut definition. Oda is making great strides in his conquest only to be usurped and killed...then Mitsunari is in return killed by Hideyoshi. Basically it's just all hell breaking loose at all times
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:09 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Dark Jester wrote:
That's the thing dude, if Hitler could get the Japs (or anybody, for that matter) to beat (or at least cripple) the American's then he could write off his Western Front as a victory as pretty much the only resistance remaining was the British. This would then allow him to focus ALL of his resources on the USSR front and possibly make a better attempt at invading to the east. The US still being around meant they could come to the aid of their allies, the British, at any moment. So before he could consider his Western Front a completed and successful campaign, he would first need insurance that the US wouldn't get involved. The plan would then be that he'd push on through Russia and come up against China from the other side, helping to conquer it and then give it to the Japs.
Pearl Harbor happened for numerous reasons, neither of us is wrong.
No no no, if Hitler had pushed through the USSR, I'm fairly sure he'd have next wanted to link up with the Italians in Egypt. Infact he'd been trying to bring Turkey into the war for that exact reason. He also wanted to drive into Iraq and Iran, which were both pre-emptivily occupied by British/Soviet forces.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:14 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
ANNNNND eventually he intended to link up with the Japs. This is alllll part of his theoretical master plan had the Japs succeeded....but they didn't
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:16 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Eventually yes, but not before going through the middle East. He also expected the Japs to defeat the Chinks and drive the British from India.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:20 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
That's all I was saying, obviously the middle east would have to come before linking up with the japs as the muslims were on the way.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:25 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Ah, I thought you meant Hitler making a linking movement by moving through Siberia and Mongolia, lawls my bad.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:26 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Actually Hitler didn't want Japan after America, the Mexicans meybe but not a nation near Europe or Asia. Didn't want the U.S. in the war with him at all, he tried to get Mexico to attack because it would keep us away from him.
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