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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
heh that's alright Hanzo, just had a misunderstanding.
ReinaHarden wrote:
Actually Hitler didn't want Japan after America, the Mexicans meybe but not a nation near Europe or Asia. Didn't want the U.S. in the war with him at all, he tried to get Mexico to attack because it would keep us away from him.
I'm afraid you're wrong, as has been cleared up by myself and Hanzo. Hitler was looking for ANYONE to keep the US from getting into the war. As mentioned he tried to get the mexicans to attack but they didn't...I'm not entire certain on this but I think he might have even tried to have gotten those crazy Canucs up north to attack, but they didn't. Running out of options, he turned to his allies the Japs and asked if they would attack. As set forth: this wasn't the ONLY reason they attacked, but it was one motivating factor.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:39 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Certianly not the Canadians, they were still a British commonwealth at the time.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:40 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Fair enough, like I said I wasn't certain on that part, but I had thought I had heard they were approached as well (told to rebel or something )
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:46 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
All parts of the British empire were beeing told to revolt. The only ones who tried were the Burmese.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:49 pm
psychokittyboy
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
... the chinks have never been good tacticians by Western standards. They more often than not rely on Zerg Rush esq tatics while in land engagements, and as seen with the only true Naval war with them, attempt to use overwhelming numbers even at sea. The idea of, say, holding reserves until near the end is such a foriegn concept to them for the most part.
Though I will give props to The Art Of War. I still think the Militerus Tacticus was a far more enlightened book on the art of war.
Now, I personally find American Generals to be the most interesting and hard core. Had we turned our eyes to conquest in the days following WWII, our Generals surely could have done it.
Let’s take our beloved General George S. Patton. Brilliant man! Helped write the book on modern Mobile Armor tactics, alongside Rommel(who I deeply respect as well). He also led from the front, gaining much respect from his men. However, he also made them hate him, and told them to surpass his expectations. He truly was a tactician and a leader of men, a rare combination in Generals. Let’s not forget he was also an amazing hard ass. We all know his famous speeches, but he many more amazing quotes as well.
Or how about Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller? A fearless man who led his troops out of an encirclement by Chinese troops in the Korean War. He is the one who gave us the famous quote in response to being informed he was surrounded “We have them right where we want them, we can shoot in any direction and hit them now”. We also have McArthur. Though a heartless man who thought nothing of throwing Marines into the grinder, he DID manage to create the Island Hopping tactic.
Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
More bad ass Chesty quotes: "All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time."[9] "Great. Now we can shoot at those bastards from every direction."[10] "We’re surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them." — November 1950, during Chosin Reservoir campaign[11][12] "Remember, you are the 1st Marines! Not all the Communists in Hell can overrun you!" (at the Chosin Reservoir) [13] "Take me to the Brig. I want to see the real Marines." "Alright you bastards, try and shoot me!" (to Korean forces) "Where do you put the bayonet?" (upon seeing a flamethrower for the first time) "You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em."[14]
Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
When was the last time an American general was declared a God of War (Or Policemen for that matter )?
And if you were paying attention when I was speaking about Zhuge Liang, you'd understand that the brilliant chinese tacticians were much more than zerg rushers. They used ambushes and reserves just as much as any other general.
Zhao Yun, for instance, employed and Empty Castle Strategy in which he lured an overwhelming enemy force into his garrison by making it seem abandoned. He then had the army locked in the courtyard while archers hidden in the drained moat fired volleys over the walls at them and decimating the enemy forces.
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:27 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
hmmm I would say the best Military Leader would have to be Vo Nguyen Glap
he was the fucking master of Guerillia warfare. he fucking purposly walks into a trap THEN KILLS EVERYTHING
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Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:44 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Obviously Americans have the most hard ass generals.
What with their charistic sarcasm, and having most started as infantry, they just kick ass.
DAMN YOU WESTPOINT, YOU HAVE RUINT OFFICERS THE WORLD OVER!
Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
psychokittyboy wrote:
Obviously Americans have the most hard ass generals.
What with their charistic sarcasm, and having most started as infantry, they just kick ass.
DAMN YOU WESTPOINT, YOU HAVE RUINT OFFICERS THE WORLD OVER!
You got nothing on Glap
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:18 am
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Haz wrote:
psychokittyboy wrote:
Obviously Americans have the most hard ass generals.
What with their charistic sarcasm, and having most started as infantry, they just kick ass.
DAMN YOU WESTPOINT, YOU HAVE RUINT OFFICERS THE WORLD OVER!
You got nothing on Glap
Puh-lease, while Giap may have been skilled as a Guerillia commander, he had no clue on how to fight an open pitched battle, as proved by the Tet offensive. If the American media hadn't shit themselfs, it would have been a fatal blow to the North Vietnamese cause.
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:31 am
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Hanzo wrote:
Haz wrote:
psychokittyboy wrote:
Obviously Americans have the most hard ass generals.
What with their charistic sarcasm, and having most started as infantry, they just kick ass.
DAMN YOU WESTPOINT, YOU HAVE RUINT OFFICERS THE WORLD OVER!
You got nothing on Glap
Puh-lease, while Giap may have been skilled as a Guerillia commander, he had no clue on how to fight an open pitched battle, as proved by the Tet offensive. If the American media hadn't shit themselfs, it would have been a fatal blow to the North Vietnamese cause.
explain how he won the open battle against the French when he had less troops Hanzo my boy
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:52 am
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
Haz wrote:
Hanzo wrote:
Haz wrote:
psychokittyboy wrote:
Obviously Americans have the most hard ass generals.
What with their charistic sarcasm, and having most started as infantry, they just kick ass.
DAMN YOU WESTPOINT, YOU HAVE RUINT OFFICERS THE WORLD OVER!
You got nothing on Glap
Puh-lease, while Giap may have been skilled as a Guerillia commander, he had no clue on how to fight an open pitched battle, as proved by the Tet offensive. If the American media hadn't shit themselfs, it would have been a fatal blow to the North Vietnamese cause.
explain how he won the open battle against the French when he had less troops Hanzo my boy
Simple. He didn't. The Vietnamese had superior numbers to the French throughout that stage of the war. Not only that, they controlled large swathes of the countryside, seperating French divisions and making reinforcing strongpoints difficult.
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:42 am
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
psychokittyboy wrote:
... the chinks have never been good tacticians by Western standards. They more often than not rely on Zerg Rush esq tatics while in land engagements, and as seen with the only true Naval war with them, attempt to use overwhelming numbers even at sea. The idea of, say, holding reserves until near the end is such a foriegn concept to them for the most part.
And let's not forget about the various ways they pulled off massive fire attacks. After the death of Guan Yu (took both the armies of Wu and Wei, and even then they only got him because they launched a flood attack on his castle by seizing and destroying the flood gates up river) Liu Bei launches a campaign against Wu seeking vengeance. Highly motivated with superior numbers, the Shu force seemed unstoppable. As such, Liu Bei got complacent and overconfident, to escape the sweltering heat of the day during the Battle of Yi Ling, he had his troops set up camp in a strategically weak valley down by the river, making them an easy target for a massive fire attack that would force Shu's retreat.
And of course the mother of them all: Chi Bi. Now whether or not you believe that Zhuge Liang actually called forth a southern wind or not is your decision, however the solid facts remain. Wei was sailing down the river with massive barges full of troops, a naval force that intended to crush Wu once and for all. Pang Tong, another famed strategist, "defected" over to the Wei side and when the fleet stopped at the Red Cliffs (Chi Bi), he recommended that all the boats be chained together to make them more sturdy...this would prevent the troops from getting sea sickness.
Meanwhile, Zhou Yu, the Wu strategist, had Huang Gai ruthlessly beaten and flogged for failing some assignment. Wei scouts and spies witnessed this beating and vouched for it as a motive when Huang Gai sent Cao Cao a letter saying he wished to defect.
With all the set-up complete, Huang Gai and his men sailed small vessels towards the massive Wei fleet. These boats were actually covered in oil and ignited at the last moment. The fleet burst into flames when the boats crashed into them, and because Pang Tong (who was in on the plot, obviously) had the boats chained together, it was impossible to stop the flames from spreading. Supposedly Zhuge Liang had been praying at an altar on a nearby mountain, and his prayers called forth a southern wind that made the flames even more of a raging inferno.
But the point is two false defection to pull off a massive fire attack isn't exactly what I would call "zerg rush and hope for the best."
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:53 pm
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Re: But seriously, the greatest general ever was...
We do realize that much that is known of those people is Myth, right?
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