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 I HEREBY DECLARE 
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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
Oh, that's now the name of that section of boards. Ok. Nevermind.

In which case, I did read the Pandemonium founding thread. Which is why I mentioned the bit about how it wasn't from mythology unless you consider Paradise Lost mythology.

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Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:34 pm
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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
it is associated to Christian mythology as Hell is in the basis Christian mythology.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
^Association does not make the work mythology itself.

Just sayin'.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
You do realize ALL of Mythology is fiction inspired from unsolvable mysteries at the base.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
EX-Seika wrote:
You do realize ALL of Mythology is fiction inspired from unsolvable mysteries at the base.


I don't think you understood what she just said to you.

Also, you are wrong on two accounts:
1)Hell is not part of Christian Mythology.
2) Mythology is NOT "fiction inspired from unsolvable mysteries". Specifically they are symbolic stories told (in various ways which do have some rules as well) to convey in comprehensible terms a transcendent truth. We don't really use mythology that much anymore, but it used to be in great use and much appreciated throughout the world.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
1) BAH Who the fuckin HELL do you think I am? some random naive retard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian_beliefs
http://www.religionfacts.com/christiani ... s/hell.htm

Hell is part of the Christian beliefs you numbnuts. And if you were pointing out that I may have implied that Hell was christian-only, I implied that way because other religions have different names for it. As a matter of exemple, the Norse Paganism has TWO Hells, one named "Hel" and the other named "Niffelheim"

2) Religions altogether have been made the explain THE ONE unsolvable mystery that hasn't been solved until milleniums later, namely, creation and origins of the unniverse, origins of life and the world, etc etc.

You're shitting on common knowledge here n0th1n. This isn't like you.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
EX-Seika wrote:
GTFO my topic towelhead, we only need you for your weapons and bombs.


All they wanted was to loot the mine. :mrgreen

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
That they did Yom, that they did.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
EX-Seika wrote:
1) BAH Who the fuckin HELL do you think I am? some random naive retard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian_beliefs
http://www.religionfacts.com/christiani ... s/hell.htm

Hell is part of the Christian beliefs you numbnuts. And if you were pointing out that I may have implied that Hell was christian-only, I implied that way because other religions have different names for it. As a matter of exemple, the Norse Paganism has TWO Hells, one named "Hel" and the other named "Niffelheim"

2) Religions altogether have been made the explain THE ONE unsolvable mystery that hasn't been solved until milleniums later, namely, creation and origins of the unniverse, origins of life and the world, etc etc.

You're shitting on common knowledge here n0th1n. This isn't like you.


Yet again, you completely miss what is being said. You really should read more carefully.
Sidenote to Lime: See, THIS is what I told you about last night, why I usually am so long winded. Otherwise people just mix stuff up and don't get it.

1) I was not denying that Hell is part of Christian beliefs. I know far better than you that it is. I even know of its relation to other religions. By the way, technically Hell in Christian beliefs is only vaguely related to the Hel in Norse, though that is one source of the name. Hel in Norse beliefs is not actually a punishment place, nor is it necessarily so bad, though not that great. Just kinda a "well, you didn't make it to Valhalla/ didn't die with a sword" kinda deal.
In any case, what I WAS denying was the idea that it is part of Christian MYTHOLOGY. I happen to know what mythology is, apparently unlike you, and have studied it a great deal. I have also studied Christianity a good deal, including what ACTUALLY ARE the Judeo-Christian Myths. Hell is not included in those.

2) Common and vulgar as your proposition about religion may be, it actually has very little to do with addressing the point about defining what the literary term "Mythology" or "Myth" actually means. Nor does it address the fact that Rosie made which you missed, and which I indicated, that the Poem "Paradise Lost" by John Milton is NOT of the literary genre "Myth". I say these points not as a theology major, but as an English Literature major who has studied Paradise Lost specifically (and Mythology specifically).

If it is that I am "shitting on common knowledge" it would seem that the 'common knowledge" is actually "popular belief" to which real knowledge is, as we say, "contrary".

I fear that my little game of words in that last sentence will be lost on most of you though...

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
n0th1n wrote:
I fear that my little game of words in that last sentence will be lost on most of you though...


So you try to put up and Argument then end up in Ad Hominem in MY General Spam. Well my apologies mister Majors, certifications and studies but I don't even need a CED to tell you this is a pathetic sophism you Jack-ass. I was going to just ignore the fuck out of you fagging up a nice thread but I'll have to shove your own arrogance down your damn throat.

First things first:
Quote:
* Main Entry: my·thol·o·gy
* Pronunciation: \mi-ˈthä-lə-jē\
* Function: noun
* Inflected Form(s): plural my·thol·o·gies
* Etymology: French or Late Latin; French mythologie, from Late Latin mythologia interpretation of myths, from Greek, legend, myth, from mythologein to relate myths, from mythos + logos speech — more at legend
* Date: 1603

1 : an allegorical narrative
2 : a body of myths: as a : the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people b : mythos 2 <cold war mythology>
3 : a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
4 : a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something : myth 2a <defective mythologies that ignore masculine depth of feeling — Robert Bly>


What is related to Gods and their stories, or myths, is mythology and I do belive that Yahveh, also known as "God" is a God. It might be hard to belive, but yeah, God is a God. Surprising no?

Under this light Religious beliefs and mythology go in par as they are the same things. Stories about a spiritual belief. Unfortunately, it seems you are too cramped on your terminologies, studies and the well-hardened belief that everything in your mind is made of Beton Facts that could never ever be wrong to realize it.

About Rosie's post. It IS a story dealing directly with dieties of the Christian beliefs, more precisely, their evil counterpart. Whether it is accepte by the public or the church is irrelevant, it IS a story about legends of a religion therefore it IS Mythology. People tend to call literary mythology fake mythology to which I pre-emptively stated that ALL Mythology was fake at the core and that the only difference between millenium-old mythology and New Age Mythology is it's acceptance amidst the community.

Now back to your own ass n0th1n. "Mythology is not fiction inspired from unsolvable mysteries" Well, guess what?

Wikipedia wrote:
Typical characteristics

The main characters in myths are usually gods or supernatural heroes.[14][15][16] As sacred stories, myths are often endorsed by rulers and priests and closely linked to religion.[14] In the society in which it is told, a myth is usually regarded as a true account of the remote past.[14][17][18][15] In fact, many societies have two categories of traditional narrative—(1) "true stories", or myths, and (2) "false stories", or fables.[19][20] Myths generally take place in a primordial age, when the world had not yet achieved its current form.[14] They explain how the world gained its current form[21][22][8][23] and how customs, institutions, and taboos were established.[14][23]

UCAR wrote:
For thousands of years people have associated objects in the sky, the Earth, and aspects of their physical world with the gods and goddesses of their cultures.

Mythology were originally thought up to explain things science could not explain back then. Zeus was the Greeks' explanation of Thunder, Thor was the norses' explanation of volcanoes. Surely you don't -really- disagree with this now do you?

Most of your tl;dr-able post is just you trying to bash me by flaunting your studies. If you want to flame me do so properly without hiding it under the cover of a ridiculous so-called argument.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
EX-Seika wrote:
n0th1n wrote:
I fear that my little game of words in that last sentence will be lost on most of you though...


So you try to put up and Argument then end up in Ad Hominem in MY General Spam. Well my apologies mister Majors, certifications and studies but I don't even need a CED to tell you this is a pathetic sophism you Jack-ass. I was going to just ignore the fuck out of you fagging up a nice thread but I'll have to shove your own arrogance down your damn throat.

First things first:
Quote:
* Main Entry: my·thol·o·gy
* Pronunciation: \mi-ˈthä-lə-jē\
* Function: noun
* Inflected Form(s): plural my·thol·o·gies
* Etymology: French or Late Latin; French mythologie, from Late Latin mythologia interpretation of myths, from Greek, legend, myth, from mythologein to relate myths, from mythos + logos speech — more at legend
* Date: 1603

1 : an allegorical narrative
2 : a body of myths: as a : the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people b : mythos 2 <cold war mythology>
3 : a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
4 : a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something : myth 2a <defective mythologies that ignore masculine depth of feeling — Robert Bly>


What is related to Gods and their stories, or myths, is mythology and I do belive that Yahveh, also known as "God" is a God. It might be hard to belive, but yeah, God is a God. Surprising no?

Under this light Religious beliefs and mythology go in par as they are the same things. Stories about a spiritual belief. Unfortunately, it seems you are too cramped on your terminologies, studies and the well-hardened belief that everything in your mind is made of Beton Facts that could never ever be wrong to realize it.

About Rosie's post. It IS a story dealing directly with dieties of the Christian beliefs, more precisely, their evil counterpart. Whether it is accepte by the public or the church is irrelevant, it IS a story about legends of a religion therefore it IS Mythology. People tend to call literary mythology fake mythology to which I pre-emptively stated that ALL Mythology was fake at the core and that the only difference between millenium-old mythology and New Age Mythology is it's acceptance amidst the community.

Now back to your own ass n0th1n. "Mythology is not fiction inspired from unsolvable mysteries" Well, guess what?

Wikipedia wrote:
Typical characteristics

The main characters in myths are usually gods or supernatural heroes.[14][15][16] As sacred stories, myths are often endorsed by rulers and priests and closely linked to religion.[14] In the society in which it is told, a myth is usually regarded as a true account of the remote past.[14][17][18][15] In fact, many societies have two categories of traditional narrative—(1) "true stories", or myths, and (2) "false stories", or fables.[19][20] Myths generally take place in a primordial age, when the world had not yet achieved its current form.[14] They explain how the world gained its current form[21][22][8][23] and how customs, institutions, and taboos were established.[14][23]

UCAR wrote:
For thousands of years people have associated objects in the sky, the Earth, and aspects of their physical world with the gods and goddesses of their cultures.

Mythology were originally thought up to explain things science could not explain back then. Zeus was the Greeks' explanation of Thunder, Thor was the norses' explanation of volcanoes. Surely you don't -really- disagree with this now do you?

Most of your tl;dr-able post is just you trying to bash me by flaunting your studies. If you want to flame me do so properly without hiding it under the cover of a ridiculous so-called argument.


Ha, I think you made yourself look fool enough with your "rebuttal".
For one, that wasn't an Ad Hominem attack. I know what an Ad Homonem a attack is. It wasn't even necessarily against you, or anyone in particular. Although you seem to find it against yourself. Is this a confession that you are among those for whom the play of words was lost?

Also, I'm not sure what a CED is. I tried looking it up, but little seemed to fit. Maybe you meant GED.

Did you notice there were lots of words in that definition? INCLUDING the particular definition you wish to use? Here, let me help you:

Quote:
2 : a body of myths: as a : the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people b : mythos 2 <cold war mythology>

Notice that the first part of the definition gives you the idea it is looking for "A body of myths" then there is this thing we call a colon, it looks like this ":", announcing that this will be elaborated upon in what follows, or examples given. What mythology is defined as so far is "a body of myths" not very enlightening, but helpful to a degree. then it says "as a: the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people" this would indicate that it is saying that the "body of myths" previously mentioned include "myths dealing with the gods...". Now notice something. It used the word "myths" again in elaborating on "body of myths". Well, thats what dictionaries do sometimes, they tell us that a "body of myths" is made up of myths. Go figure. Just like a "body of cells" is made up of cells. Notice it did NOT say what you seem to want it to say "a body of fiction stories" nor "a body of myths: a group of any fiction stories related to gods..." nor even "a body of myths: stories relating to gods".
Now, using essentially the word in its definition isn't great form, but its "myths" for "mythology" so we'll let it slide. Besides, they gave the first definition for you as well to help you understand the subsequent defintions:
Quote:
1 : an allegorical narrative

Thats right, an allegorical narrative. I've heard it defined that way, and maybe thats better, or clearer than "symbolic stories..." but my definition is also one of similar line but maybe a bit more particular from different scholars ideas.
why not go for the next one now:
Quote:
3 : a branch of knowledge that deals with myth

Like how biology is a study of the "bio", life. Not a big step there.
Quote:
4 : a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something

This one is a bit vague or broad, but seems to refer to the popular usage of the term "myth", rather than the literary term. In any case it doesn't really relate to what either of us is saying.

I think at this point you might want to "revise" your statements after you quoted those definitions.
Also, what you quoted from wikipedia, while it doesn't actually help your argument as much as you'd like it to, isn't that complete. You may be surprised to learn that mythology isn't so simple as "explain how we got here, or explain how that works". Often that kinda stuff is actually irrelevant to mythology. In fact if you've read many myths, like the Norse Myths you've been mentioning, past the first few pages of their documentation, you'd know that very little of it involves "how things got here" or things science could not explain. Usually that kind of idea wasn't that relevant at all. More often it explains things like various Virtues and Values of a culture/religion, or morals, or humanities place in the universe/meaning of life, or the general philosophy of things, or the particular relationship with the Divine, and so on. Sometimes it does involve a bit of explanation of how things came to be, sometimes not. Depending on the culture, though as far as I know it was pretty common in this light though possibly not, it hardly mattered at all whether the bits of contact with "what science cannot explain" or "how things came to be as they are" were accurate or not, as that wasn't the point of the story. If it was, of course, we wouldn't have, in the ACTUAL Judeo-Christian mythology, two distinct myths about creation positioned one right after the other. They aren't concerned with the particulars of how the earth was formed and life came on it and so on, but rather concerned with greater transcendent concepts like WHY and WHO and What is MY point and my people's point in existence? And other things as well. These are not matters of "things science can't explain" these are matters of "things science has very little or nothing to do with". Its like saying Punk Rock songs are made to explain "things architecture can't explain".

Most of my "tl;dr" posts actually have been to trying to tell you "YOU ARE NOT USING THE CORRECT WORDS FOR THESE THINGS". The first post was actually just playing with you and testing to see how much you knew about the stuff you were trying to throw around, which has since proved more and more inadequate.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
Quote:
For one, that wasn't an Ad Hominem attack. I know what an Ad Homonem a attack is. It wasn't even necessarily against you, or anyone in particular. Although you seem to find it against yourself. Is this a confession that you are among those for whom the play of words was lost?


Well, if it wasn't an Ad Hominem I would have to call melodrmatic attention-whoring as you threw this spike at a non-existent public. This topic is just you and me right now, of course what you throw is invariably directed at me.


Quote:
Did you notice there were lots of words in that definition? INCLUDING the particular definition you wish to use? Here, let me help you:


Why yes. However, things are NOT really all their definitions at once. For example, a pipe may be something used to smoke or something that carries, let's say, water in and out of your habitation, but it doesn't do both definitions of the word.

Quote:
Notice it did NOT say what you seem to want it to say "a body of fiction stories" nor "a body of myths: a group of any fiction stories related to gods..." nor even "a body of myths: stories relating to gods".


Ok, I'll put it in other words since you seem to be missing the point you're making yourself ever since. : By saying myths are not fictional you are calling them realities. I'll come back at you with your annoying-ass multiple definitions. If you took me using fiction as in "pieces of literary works" I meant it as in "Tale of something that is not real; that doesn't exist". Maybe you should make sure you use the correct definition of something before going on a speech about definitions.

Quote:
Also, what you quoted from wikipedia, while it doesn't actually help your argument as much as you'd like it to, isn't that complete. You may be surprised to learn that mythology isn't so simple as "explain how we got here, or explain how that works".


Of course it's more complicated, however, I, unlike you, feel no need to try to reach the post's character limit and try to remain short. I, once again unlike you, don't try to fill up my posts with as many possible yet irrelevant things as I can.

I am not going to break down your posts any further since you don't have the decency to do so yourself when quoting mine so I'll just keep it at this, point have been made.

I very much like your last statement. Declaring you're confronting me on the topic of English knowing that you have an English majort and that I have no English qualification whatsoever, am not a native English speaker and live in a non-english-speaking community and province. Yes, that totally isn't Ego-fapping. :)

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
EX-Seika wrote:

2) Religions altogether have been made the explain THE ONE unsolvable mystery that hasn't been solved until milleniums later, namely, creation and origins of the unniverse, origins of life and the world, etc etc.


You do realize religion more explains our place in the world, rather than how we got here right?

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
psychokittyboy wrote:
EX-Seika wrote:

2) Religions altogether have been made the explain THE ONE unsolvable mystery that hasn't been solved until milleniums later, namely, creation and origins of the unniverse, origins of life and the world, etc etc.


You do realize religion more explains our place in the world, rather than how we got here right?



You do realize that Religion is in fact a huge thing and since by saying every little thing I would make a n0th1n out of myself. Religions do have explanations about a LOT of things but you don't see me do a summary of the bible just to illustrate that it does talk of one thing amidst others.

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Post Re: I HEREBY DECLARE
Errr... Since when did general spam became no-spam?

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